Spend vs difference in these 3 pretty similar sleeping bags, thoughts?

[Aaron Zagrodnick]

On 5/19/2016 at 12:20 PM, Reflex said:

WM Sycamore MF, 2lbs. $489.00, 25 EN, 850 fill down, fill weight 17 oz, quilts out, open foot box
http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/product_Western-Mountaineering-Sycamore-MF-25-Degree-Sleeping-Bag_10079728_10208_10000001_-1_

Sea To Summit Trek II, 2lbs, 4oz, $239.00 (on sale) 18 EN, 650 fill down, fill weight 17.6 oz, quilts out, open footbox
https://www.rei.com/product/830941/sea-to-summit-trek-tkii-sleeping-bag?cm_mmc=cse_PLA_GOOG-_-8309410002&CAWELAID=120217890000798479&lsft=cm_mmc:cse_PLA_GOOG

Sierra Designs Zissou, 23 EN, 2lbs, 15.6 oz fill weight, 700 down, $199, but not footbox, doesnt quilt out.
https://www.rei.com/product/102275/sierra-designs-zissou-23-sleeping-bag

Of those 3 seems like the Zissou could be a pretty good deal @Reflex for $160 with the current REI member coupon.

On 5/19/2016 at 9:28 PM, Reflex said:

So is it a big deal if the WM bag is not water repellant? (I have no clue)

I've used several different Western Mountaineering bags over the years - they're really nice bags and I've had good experiences with the normal 850+ down they utilize in the conditions that I typically encounter. I would either way and no matter what you choose do everything you can to keep your bag and the rest of your insulation dry. My bags have handled some inevitable humidity / water bottle mishaps / condensation scenarios well...the fabric's DWR can offer some minor assistance with the latter. As described previously though, a soaked bag could make for a bad situation. From my limited experience with treated down I've had some instances where the insulation tends to clump together (when dry) compared to what I have that's untreated...I had the choice between both when I picked up the ZPacks bag I currently use and opted for untreated, and since then ZPacks has discontinued the water resistant option, apparently due to performance concerns. On the other hand, there are multiple sources, and other manufacturers that now only seem to utilize treated / hydrophobic down so approaches vary. 

On 5/19/2016 at 5:33 PM, Billg said:

Does anyone have real life experience with higher and lower fill power down. Is 850 fill power that much better than 700 fill power? I have down bags, but don't know what fill power down is in them. All of the ones that I have are old and heavy, so I'm confident that they are low fill power. They keep me warm, but they are heavy and bulky. When someone switches to a high fill power bag, do they love it or wonder why they switched? I understand the theory, but wonder whether the experience matches it.

Bill - all of my sleeping bags have previously either been synthetic or down bags of the higher fill power variety, but I have used both low and high fill power jackets and parkas - for backpacking use I do definitely like the higher fill power options but I wouldn't worry about small differences. As an example Enlightened Equipment allows you choose from several options on their site which can give an apples to apples comparison on the use of different FP down with everything else kept the same, although they only offer the option of 800 through 950 which are all already pretty high on the scale. Warm is warm, though!

[Billg]

For quite some time, I have thought that, if I had an extra $500 to spend, I would like to get the Z-Packs bag. It has high loft and can be customized to fit me and it can be used as a sleeping bag or quilt. I tent to favor quilts these days, but don't want to rule out zipping up if it's really cold. What I don't use is a built in hood. The questions really boil down to what are you going to use it for and how much do you want to pay. If you are not going to be out for more than two or three days at a time, weight and compressability are less a factor. When you plan to be on the trail for a week or more and need the extra space and weight allowance for food, it's a different story. In my case, I am not just concerned with being cold, I am also concerned with being too hot. I favor layering for sleeping when the temperatures are variable. My two pound Climashild quilt with my one pound down throw blanket will take me to freezing comfortably. If it's too warm I can throw one ore the other off. My four pound REI duck down bag will also take me down to freezing, but all I can do to cool off is open it up, which means that part of me will be hot and part will be cold. I have found that my tent will raise the air temperature 10 to 15 degrees over ambient, where my tarp doesn't. A lot depends on the conditions that you expect and some on the conditions that you didn't expect. What I ultimately want to do is to shave a little weight and some bulk off my sleep system. My Climasheild quilt is not very heavy, but it is bulky. My old REI bag is both heavy and bulky, but it's warm. I'll probably reserve it for truck camping. The packable down throw, which you used to be able to get at Costco for $20 is light and compressible. It's a shame that you can't find them any more. My sleep system options include socks, long underwear tops and bottoms, my down puffy, caps, lightweight wool liner gloves and a merino wool balaclava Buff. The balaclava Buff is a marvelous lightweight head covering, but not necessarily enough by itself. I have weighed every possible component and can choose pieces to suit the conditions that I expect and then some. The bags and quilts are still the heaviest and bulkiest components. With what I've got, it looks like 3 to 3-1/2 pounds will be the minimum weight for temperatures down to freezing. I'd like to shave a little off that, but I don't think that there is any one bag that will suit me for all conditions. Here in the Midwest, the heat and humidity of summer means that all of the down goes in the closet until fall.

[Aaron Zagrodnick]

The ZPacks bag has been great - lighter, just as warm, and I sleep better using the separate hood. I'd say it's pretty versatile as well which was important to me - I got mine with the full length 2 way zipper as I initially had some of the same concerns. For max warmth I always shift the down to the top and sleep with the zipper underneath, but you could also reverse that setup for warm weather or use it more like a quilt. Since the 20 degree I have is just 1.5 lbs I use it for any trip year round and can push it lower than 20 with some similar add on items like you mentioned. But still, it won't handle everything I need it to handle alone and I used it combined with a Western Mountaineering Megalite this winter for really cold conditions...a single do it all solution can be hard to obtain without carrying extra weight when it's warmer. I'm originally from the south so I can relate to those summer nights - I think some type of 2 bag system works great and offers a nice blend of simplicity and specialization, with the combination just depending on the usual range of expected temps and / or whatever gear you might already have on hand. 

[ppine]

There is no doubt that Feathered Friends and WM make some great down bags. Are they worth the cost?  That depends.  I got by in the mountains for several decades with an REI bag that was mostly duck down.  It was a big step up from the WWII surplus bags we had as teen agers that were mostly chopped chicken feathers.

[Deesk06]

I know you are asking about those 3, I have a pretty expensive sleeping bag from REI. However I bought my gf a sleeping bag off amazon for $25 that is lightweight and packs well. It is doing one hell of a job. Especially for a fraction of the price of the other sleeping bags. I can't believe how well it's holding up and how well it does. Just thought I would throw that out there. Obviously more expensive ones have advantages, but this one sleeping bag is blowing me away! 

[Aaron Zagrodnick]

@Reflex curious what you ended up with? Hopefully it's working out well!

[Mcaldwell]

The main differences in price come from full weight and actual weight as others have noted. The more you pay the less you get (weight and size)! As for treated vs non treated down the difference is that yes duck and goose feathers are naturally water repellent, on the animal. Once you remove them they loose their essential oils and therefore the bulk of their repellency causing them to clump up when wet. This in turn causes cold spots or areas of less insulation. To combat this the feathers are pretreated to help repair water and many bags have tighter baffles sewn so that of the feathers clump they remain closer together. When you compress down you reduce its insulative properties (like laying the bag directly on the ground vs on a baffled pad that allows the insulation to fluff). In order to answer your question, the WM bag is mostly more due to its full weight. Is that justifiable? Completely up to you. The STS bag has s rectangular footbox. The SD bag has a tapered box causing it to feel tighter. Most of those are merely preferences although I'd tend to stick to dry down. And yes, once you've felt a higher fill bag (or jacket) you can tell the difference. Happy trails and happy decision making.

[sweerek]

Just for the persons focusing on "Spend" in the title...

By far the best bang-for-the-buck is a used Modular Sleep System (official US military gear; 2 bags + Goretex bivy + sack) for $75-$90 shipped.  Add a $1 foil 'emergency' blanket as a vapor barrier liner, balaclava, and a couple $30 Therm-a-Rest Ridge Rest pads and you've complete summer to way-cold-winter sleep system. 

Plus, when you graduate to a dry-down bag or quilt and an inflatable pad, you'll still use the MSS & pads for those more-rare winter trips, loaning to friends, etc.

(This is what I recommend to all my Boy Scout parents.)

Edited February 9, 2017 by sweerek